Back in the day in 2017, Tony Rettman was generous to send me an unedited BOLD chapter from his book “STRAIGHT EDGE: A Clear-Headed Hardcore Punk History” which I also shared in my fanzine in the same year. So you can check it out below. Pics by: Free Thought fanzine, Boiling Point fanzine, Think fanzin, Ken Salerno.
Ray Cappo (Violent Children, Youth of Today, Shelter): When Violent Children was active prior to Youth of Today, we always wanted a brother band to play out with.
John Porcelly (Young Republicans, Violent Children, Youth of Today, BOLD, Judge, Gorilla Biscuits, Shelter, Project X): Youth of Today’s first drummer’s little sister was friends with these seventh graders that had Mohawks and played in a punk band.
Ray Cappo: Crippled Youth was basically a local punk rock band made up of thirteen-year-olds. We were really excited to hear them. They played at the Anthrax in Stamford, Connecticut, opening for the Descendents, and everybody loved them.
Mike Gitter (xXx fanzine): Crippled Youth were twelve year-olds playing straight edge hardcore. That was such a great, uncalculated marketing idea. Who wouldn’t want to see a band of prepubescent kids playing their interpretation of old school hardcore?
Dave Zukauskas (Run It! fanzine): When Crippled Youth started out they were more punk. They had a song called “Desperate for Beer,” and they did Black Flag covers. But I guess even by the time of their first show they had posi-youth type songs like “Stand Together,” and that’s what really impressed Ray and Porcell. At the time there were no other straight edge type bands from the area. I’m guessing that Youth of Today saw Crippled Youth, who were all 13 and 14 at the time, as the one band playing the Anthrax with whom they had something in common.
Steve Reddy (NY Wolfpack): The scene was so small at that point that discovering these fourteen-year-old kids from Katonah, New York, playing hardcore was crazy. And the first time I met Crippled Youth, they were real punks. They had their hair gelled up into spikes and stuff like that.
Matt Warnke (Crippled Youth, BOLD): Ray, John, Darren and Graham from Youth of Today were all at Crippled Youth’s first Anthrax show. The fact that we were all from nearby and were into 7 Seconds, Agnostic Front, and Dischord Records made them interested in us. Also, we all skated at that point. We started hanging out, and those guys lent us so many great records by SSD, DYS, Jerry’s Kids, Negative Approach, Reagan Youth, the Abused, and Antidote. We knew of the bands, but having access to the records was critical and fortunate, and definitely helped to influence our sound and sensibilities.
Ray Cappo: They lived right near Porcell and we became friends. I had a ramp in my yard and we would skate it. They were young kids and wanted music. We’d give them all the good records and say, “It took us years of buying the stupidest records. I wish someone did this for me. Here’s a stack of nothing but the greatest records!” They became our younger brothers.
Drew Thomas (BOLD, Youth of Today, Into Another): Maybe it is a bit lofty to think about, but I believe at the time Youth of Today tried to align themselves with what SSD had done as far as taking a leadership role in the scene. With that said, I think in Bold, we saw ourselves a bit more as a “younger brother band” like DYS, if there had to be analogies drawn.
Dave Zukauskas: Plus, you know, Crippled Youth needed someone to drive them around, they weren’t old enough to have their licenses yet, so it made it convenient for Youth of Today and Crippled Youth to play shows together.
Jordan Cooper (Revelation Records): Ray and Porcell probably consciously wanted Crippled Youth to be a little brother band, and they ended up becoming longtime friends. As for their “role,” Bold was probably the closest band to Youth of Today as far as mutual support and camaraderie.
Matt Warnke: Crippled Youth came upon resistance and resentment in the same way Ray and Porcell had. One incident in particular occurred after Crippled Youth had a one-page feature in Maximum Rocknroll right around the release of our seven-inch EP Join The Fight. Our label New Beginning Records and its founder Mike Trouchon arranged that. The piece was fairly innocuous, and I was just completely psyched, looking forward to being in the zine in which I had read about so many bands. One of the questions was something along the lines of, “How do you feel about yourselves and other straight edge bands getting flack for stating your beliefs?” Drew responded by drawing the analogy between us and other straight edge bands championing our beliefs and day-to-day habits, and those of Murphy’s Law, who sang proudly of their party-loving ways. No one questioned them for that, he pointed out. I remember reading that and having a bad feeling in the back of my mind that this would not go unnoticed. Fast forward to say six weeks later, I was at a show at the Ritz. I’m not sure who headlined, but Murphy’s Law were playing. About midway through the set, Jimmy G introduced a song, I want to say “Care Bear,” and he basically called out Crippled Youth for having the audacity to say something about his band. I just remember it felt like a spotlight shone right on me, and everyone who was near me stepped back six feet. I was thinking, “Thanks, Drew.” Mark Ryan from Death Before Dishonor and Supertouch came up to me and was like, “Don’t worry about it, I’ll talk to those guys and straighten it out.”
Murphy’s Law’s set ended, and Mark insisted we head backstage to iron things out. I remember the looks I got from Petey Hines and Joe Bruno. I was trying to be tough, but I was like fourteen years old facing these cats. Anyway, nothing was really resolved that night despite Mark speaking on our behalf. So the next day, I had stayed over in New Jersey, and we headed into Manhattan to the CB’s matinee as per usual. I remember being in the back of Mike Ferraro’s Camaro. I don’t think we really talked about it too much, but there was a sort of underlying concern of what could happen. We had no real way to know. I remember walking down Third Avenue towards CB’s. Then I think Mark again had a word with Jimmy Gestapo, and Jimmy just came over and shook my hand, made a joke, and that was that.
John Porcelly: The whole Youth Crew thing is still relevant, because, like the new generation, we were young and considered naive and dumb for taking such a hard stance against drinking and still clinging to fast hardcore with breakdowns, instead of more “mature” music with complex songwriting and musicianship. Most of the older generation had moved on. But we loved that early mosh-tastic, super-hard hardcore. To this day I think young, energetic alternative kids find it the most powerful, moving music ever.
Caine Rose (Touch X Down, 4 Walls Falling, Fed Up!): I think Minor Threat, the Faith, SSD, DYS and a few West Coast bands already heralded the turn of the philosophy into a movement in the early to mid 80s. The late ‘80s saw a new and more powerful revival of straight edge by these amazing New York, Connecticut, and mid-Atlantic bands. It wasn’t necessarily new, but it was more dynamic and even supercharged. It was the right time and place for a music revolution. And straight edge hardcore was undoubtedly one of the most formidable champions of musical zealotry.
Chris Bratton (Chain Of Strength, Inside Out): When Nirvana broke in 1991, they’d hit the reset button powerfully stripping shit back down to the basics and in doing so, they instantly swept away and made irrelevant all the hair metal bands and all the other shit, even Michael Jackson, who was infamously bumped from the number on position on the Pop Charts by Nirvana’s Nevermind LP. When Youth of Today broke big in 1987, they’d also hit that same reset button stripping shit all the way down and also instantly swept away all that had become bloated and irrelevant in hardcore.
“STRAIGHT EDGE: A Clear-Headed Hardcore Punk History” (Bazillion Points, 2017) by Tony Rettman is a compiled series of interviews regarding the origins and influence of the straight edge subculture/community. All the things you need to know about this release: Tony’s book is a very well done and really informative oral history, handy, quick read that is put together nicely in chapters with awesome photos and flyers. If you haven’t read it yet, I suggest you go and get it. Such a great book! https://sandpaperlullaby.bigcartel.com https://www.instagram.com/sandpaperlullaby
I made this interview with Tony about his book in 2017, it was originally published in Chiller Than Most fanzine, issue 5. Pics by Ken Salerno, Christine Elise, JJ Gonson, Free Thought fanzine.
CTM – Your last book (“NYHC: New York Hardcore 1980-1990”) covers the glory days of the first wave of NYHC, rising from the drug-infested streets of Manhattan’s Lower East Side to the suburbs and beyond. I know a lot of hardcore kids were turning into junkies. Heroin was a real big thing, it was very prevalent back then on the Lower East Side, and I heard there was a lot of mescaline going around too, psychedelic drugs were big part of the early years. Where did the idea to write a book about the other side come from? Where did the idea to write a book about straight edge come from? Tony – I wanted to put together a book on Straight Edge done in a fashion I personally would want to read. Most books that are out there are written from a personal angle or tell the story stripped of the musical aspect. I wanted to do a book that traced the whole history of it throughout Hardcore Punk and the various places it went throughout the past 35 (or so) years.
CTM – How long did you work on the book, and what was the first thing you did for the book? Tony – From January 2015 to November 2016. First thing I did was reach out to people I thought should be interviewed while also scanning through the other interviews I’ve conducted throughout the years seeing if there was anything within them I could use.
CTM – What did you find the most surprising in conducting all your interviews? That no matter what moment in time the person came from within the Hardcore scene, their story on how they became interested in Straight Edge was the same. Strung out family members or seeing kids become potheads at 13; it didn’t appeal to them and the concept of Straight Edge seemed welcoming.
CTM – The cover photo of the book was made by Ken Salerno in 1989, CIV from Gorilla Biscuits dives into a BOLD crowd (City Gardens, Trenton). Could you please tell me something about the cover of the book, why did you choose this photo? Tony – The photo was chosen by the publisher. I’ll be honest and say it wasn’t my first choice or personal choice for the cover image, but it looks pretty bad-ass in the here and now! And it tied Civ in to do the intro which is cool. He’s not a guy who grants himself out on the reg, so I’m shocked and honored he agreed to do it.
CTM – You interviewed a ton of people for the book. “STRAIGHT EDGE: A Clear-Headed Hardcore Punk History” is written out in an oral history type of layout again, each person you interviewed for the book tells the story in their own words. It seems to me you really like this format. Tony – It’s a format that lends itself to being unobtrusive to the proceedings. You can get the story out there in its pure form without interjecting too much of yourself into it.
CTM – The early DC straight edge scene saw itself as a counter-culture movement, like the hippies were in the 60’s. Brian Baker said in an interview that people hypothesize that DC is the cradle of straight-edge, so there was this ethical sidebar that was part of everything, but DC was really just like any small town scene. It wasn’t just a straight-edge town. Tony – Yes. I think it was a matter of it simply being the town where a band wrote a song that spurred some thought in people.
CTM – Al Barile said that straight edge is one of the most important cultural influences of the last century. Straight edge kicked down the walls and opened the doors to music and choices that formed a new core of cool. SS Decontrol and Department of Youth Services took straight edge to a different place, the brand of straight edge was solidified in Boston. What do you think about Al’s statement and how do you feel about SS Decontrol’s and DYS’s legacy? Tony – I think Al is 100% correct. I was the youngest of five kids. My brother and sisters were really living that American high school lifestyle you see in films like Dazed and Confused or maybe even Fast Time At Ridgemont High. I was under the impression that drinking and getting high was just what you did when you hit high school and you had no choice in the matter. When my brother brought home SSD’s Get It Away and DYS’ Brotherhood, the way they looked (an accessable fashion that I was pretty much already wearing) combined with the lyrics honestly put this proverbial lightbulb over my head and made me think “Oh..I can do WHATEVER I want!” That epiphany not only put me on the path of being Straight Edge at that point in my life, but also blew my mind wide open on a larger scale in the aspect of how I would conduct myself for the rest of my life.
CTM – Youth of Today were a pioneering band. There were really important and influential bands up until that point, but I don’t think any band had the impact that Youth of Today did. Ray Cappo had an unusual talent to make changes in the scene. They had a mission statement: bring back straight edge, in a new way, they wanted to prove that it is not just a passing trend or whim but a legitimate alternative to a self-destructive drug culture. “The Youth Crew look became a stance against the violent, nihilistic, drunken mentality that was prevalent in the hardcore scene at the time.” How do you evaluate the work of Youth of Today? Tony – Youth of Today were very important for me personally because at the time my brother started taking me to shows (summer of ‘84) it felt like I missed something. By that point, SSD and DYS went hard rock/heavy metal and Minor Threat had broken up. Bands like Stalag 13, Justice League or Ill Repute weren’t touring the east coast. When I read an interview with Youth of Today a year later in a local NJ ‘zine called Faith, I felt a connection as they really laid it out there that they were looking to rejuvenate the Hardcore scene. They meant a lot to me and still do.
CTM – You processed the story of the youth crew fashion in the “NYHC: New York Hardcore 1980-1990” and you will publish a chapter (“Youth crew style: more than fashion”) about this topic in your upcoming book. Varsity jackets instead of leather jackets, rolled up jeans instead of bondage pants, crewcuts instead of liberty spikes and Nikes, Adidas instead of Doc Martens, no Mohawks, Champion sweatshirts, Air Jordans, low top Vans with colored laces. The youth crew image was a powerful one, and as the new straight edge bands, most notably Youth of Today, got more popular, it seemed straight edge started becoming more externalized. Many people thought that the imagery started taking precedence over the substance. What do you think about this topic? Tony – I think when Straight Edge went beyond a philosophy or a set of “rules” and the iconography took over in the later part of the 80’s, that’s when it gained traction in a way it never did before. The building blocks for the look came from the back covers of SSD and DYS records for sure, but I think the tie-in of hip hop fashion at the time sealed up the “Youth Crew” look and made it what it’s observed as today. No matter how much people crapped on the idea of all these kids ‘looking the same’, it gave people something to hone in on and identify with in the same way someone might have looked at the back of a Discharge record and said, “That’s me”.
CTM – I really like what Gordo wrote about Mike Judge’s lyrics on Double Cross: “Whether you were straight edge in the past or straight edge in the present, there is no denying the sheer brutal honesty and power of JUDGE lyrics. It can be an uphill battle if you fall outside the social structure that involves drinking or even recreational drug use, but if you ever need some lyrics to help cement your feelings, having Mike Ferraro’s words handy is probably your best bet. “I’ll try to keep my cool…”” Mike is the master of being brutally honest with a life that is put into lyrics, what do you think about his lyrics? Tony – At the time the “New York Crew” 7 inch came out, those lyrics Mike wrote were so cathartic for a guy in high school like myself who seemed to be constantly being ridiculed from every angle for not going along with the party aspect of teenage culture, but I think the lyrics of “Bringin’ It Down” still resonate more with me in the present day. After laying down these hard as nails lyrics on the 7”, it was shocking to hear him growl, “I can still remember the last time I cried’ He was showing vulnerability after taking shots for being too reactionary and it added another dimension to his persona.
Don’t forget to tell the world that “Punishment Park” was released one year ago yesterday. While some hardcore records lose their luster over time, this one remains stunning. It’s a modern classic. I did this Big Cheese interview with Tom in 2018, it was originally released in Chiller Than Most fanzine. Pics by Spencer Borealis, Matt Gabell, Pali, Roman Laris, Natalie Wood, Andrey. https://bigcheesehc.bandcamp.com/
CTM – Yo! How do you remember Big Cheese coming together, and what would you say was the driving force behind the creation of the band? Tom – Ey up. I was and still am singing in a band called True Vision. My band mate, best mate and love of my life Maegan had recently moved in with me in Armley, a bleak suburb of Leeds where we lived with Andy Jones of The Flex fame and Sky. Maegan had written a bunch of songs that summer and said she think I’d sound good singing on them. We then asked Alex and Louis from Higher Power to join us at practice and Big Cheese became.
CTM – Rest In Pieces definitely seems to be one of the main influences for the band, but I think The Icemen had a larger influence on you when you were writing these riffs. It is very important to note the difference between being influenced and directly copying. Writing the “Sports Day Demo” and “Aggravated Mopery”, what were some of your major influences? What was the inital plan, like “we are gonna do this band influnced by …”. Tom – Rest In Pieces was most definitely a big influence on the demo, including a lot of other stuff like Fit Of Anger, Life’s Blood and then incorporating the d-beats from Cro-Mags etc. We started writing Icemen style Ozzy Osbourne riffs and more metallic stuff akin to Crumbsuckers later on when writing the 7”. When anybody asked, I think we’d just say we started a band like Cro-Mags haha.
CTM – You released the 7 inch last September (2017), it has been out long enough. What were people’s reactions to it? How do you feel about the responses you have been getting? What was the funniest reaction? What is one review or criticism you are most proud of? Tom – Genuinely, I can’t say I’ve read or heard much criticism with regards to the 7” which is honestly surprising to me, especially in this day in age. Adam Malik of The Essence Records said he thought our name sucked but ya can’t please everybody. Andrew, Atko, Nicky, Ola, Don Fury and the rest of the band did an amazing job on the record and we’re all proud of it. I’m grateful for the positive reception and opportunities we’ve received subsequently. Funniest reaction is ‘what the fuck does Aggravated Mopery mean?’ They’ll learn. I’m infinitely proud of every bit of feedback we get.
CTM – You are in a couple other bands, how is Big Cheese different from your other bands? Is there something unique about Big Cheese that you weren’t able to do with other bands? Tom – Big Cheese feels different to other bands we might play in as it seems there’s something in it for someone from any walk of life; as opposed to being quite aggregated or fitting into a box. It seems to speak to punks, metalheads, skinheads, skaters, whoeverheads. I like that. It’s almost unifying.
CTM – The song called “TCP” is like an apocalyptic picture, dealing with how humanity as a whole is destroying the planet. Most of the people realize this, but some of our leaders don’t seem to have the courage to do much about it or against big business. What do you think about this topic? Tom – I spent a lot of time writing the lyrics for TCP after we’d come up with the main frame of the song. I guess at the time I was trying to paint a picture of where we were living at the time, without being overly poetic. You can feel every aspect of life being sucked out of the neglected areas where money isn’t being pumped into anymore, where industry has died and the people there just seem to wilt until they’re nothing. The government don’t care, never have and never will and it certainly won’t be long until there’s nothing left, apart from a cockroach and the Aggravated Mopery 7”.
CTM – “Pass the buck.” Can you go more in-depth about the meaning of this song and what it means to you? Tom – “Pass The Buck” is a funny one. I’d gotten into some stuff with my job at the time and was wrongly accused of something I hadn’t done and was subsequently suspended. I guess the song projected my anger towards big corporations and the notion of being disposable. It’s a dog eat dog world.
CTM – How did you came up with the idea to record the M13 cover song? Tom – My good friend Edo Zavarella sent me a ton of stuff hidden in the corners of the worldwide web, like Emanon, ESG and Enuf and also included the M13 demo that I’d not heard up until that point. I just thought it was a good homage to the bands and sounds that have influenced us and sounded cool incorporating it into the title track, Aggravated Mopery.
CTM – The design Andy Fletcher and Nicky Rat made for you is one of the sickest illustrations I have ever seen. How important is the aesthetic side of the band to you? How important is the layout, imagery and packaging for Big Cheese? Tom – I love the artwork and the aesthetic we slowly came into. I think it took us a while to know exactly what we wanted to go for but the collaboration between Andrew Fletcher and Nicky Rat’s work is second to none. I think that aesthetic is particularly important in shaping the way people respond to a band but it should never overshadow the music or become a fashion statement. I’m really happy with what we’ve got going on right now. We slap Nicky’s logo on everything.
CTM – I really love your mafia concept artworks and the continuation of the “Sports Day” artwork for “Aggravated Mopery”. Every time I see the cover of your record, it reminds me of Stephen Graham haha! He played the notorious gangster Al Capone in Boardwalk Empire. What are your favourite movies in this realm and why? Tom – I’m obsessed with all things mafia and the mafioso idea for the artwork just felt right. Especially with the name Big Cheese. Admittedly, I haven’t seen beyond the first episode of Boardwalk Empire but I love Godfather, Goodfellas, Once Upon A Time In America, A Bronx Tale, obviously The Sopranos. I couldn’t tell you exactly why I love those things but the satirical elements and underlying humour intertwined with violence and dark subject matter makes for great entertainment. Noir has gotta be my favourite genre of film.
CTM – Who is the big cheese in the band and why? Tom – I think I’ve become accustomed to being the Big Cheese in the band, front persons usually do. I like steering the vehicle.
CTM – A few weeks ago the band released this biblical “NWOBHC FM” session on tape. The set mixes up songs from your 2016 Sports Day Demo and 2017’s Aggravated Mopery 7″. How did you came up with the idea of playing a live radio session? Tom – Ola from QCHQ asked us if we wanted to do a radio show and live set when we were in London just after New Year. We were there for our record release show and did both in one weekend.
CTM – I really love listening to live sets and radio sets. What do you think, was it any different playing a show and playing a live set on the “radio”? How should we imagine this “NWOBHC FM” set? Tom – I’m exactly the same, listening to a band live and especially a hardcore band conveys the energy you expect and grow to love from live shows. We were tucked away in a freezing cold warehouse in a tiny sound proof room. It was no bigger than a broom cupboard with a set of drums in. I couldn’t actually hear myself back when singing so shot out my voice pretty badly. It was a sick experience nonetheless and we’re all happy with how it came out! Even if a little embarrassed of the interview haha. When pressing the tape, we decided to put the demo originally dubbed to 50 on the B side which gave people an opportunity to own a physical copy of that too.
CTM – Your session was the first episode of the “NWOBHC FM” series. There is a clear parallel between the WNYU’s Crucial Chaos and the “New Wave of British Hardcore FM”. What are your favourite WNYU radio sets and why? Tom – The Outburst and Side By Side one. Just captures perfectly the essence of both bands. Both hard as fuck and keeps that spirit alive.
CTM – You are wearing a “United Blood” tee on the cover of “Live on NWOBHC FM” cassette. When the band released “United Blood”, they started using the term “hardcore” because they wanted to separate AF from the druggy and artsy punk scene. Content, lyrics and message wise why do you think this record is exponentially important? Tom – United Blood is obviously one of the four greatest 7”s that came out of NYC in 1983 and probably laid the foundation for NYHC as everybody knows it today. “We’re fighting in the streets, trying to be free. They say the regime will save us all. It’s anti-social and gonna fall”. Still relevant. “You think you’ve got everything, but really you’ve got nothing”. Need I say more? Sound wise, there’s no contest. It’s sloppy as hell but it’s raw and you wouldn’t want it any other way. It’s a product of the time but still bears a lot of relevance to society today. Antidote- Thou Shalt Not Kill is still my no. 1 though.
CTM – What makes a hardcore guitarist good in your opinion? What guitarist in UK hardcore today has the best moves? Tom – Guitarists with all the gear and no idea are a turn off for me. I think the ability to play fast and hard is a must. If you can shred it’s definitely a bonus. Rhythm is key. I’d have to say Louis. He’s got a sick stage style. Foxy in The Flex too. CP cap over the eyes and destroying a Charvel.
CTM – If Big Cheese needed a third guitarist, would the band consider bringing Dave Murray or Rob Echeverria in? Tom – Rob Echeverria no doubt. His solos are insane, especially in Straight Ahead. A real deal hard rock guitarist and wears a vest or is shirtless at all times. He also played in Helmet for a while and there’s a vid on YouTube of that somewhere which is sick.
CTM – If Big Cheese could play a bill with British bands from the 70s and 80s, which bands would be on the bill? Tom – Stiff Little Fingers, Motörhead, GBH, Ultraviolent, Slaughter Of The Dogs.
CTM – Thanks for your time. Any closing thoughts, shout outs or words of encouragement? Tom – Thanks for taking the time to interview me and for the interesting questions. Keep spreading the gospel and shout out NWOBHC for keeping the punk in hardcore. See you in Europe this summer with NYHC’s Illusion. Oosh.
An in-depth analysis of the history of Token Entry, interview with Zachary Wuerthner (Shining Life, Moshers Delight, Intent, Mob Mentality) and Gil Sayfan (Zeel, Free Spirit, Big Contest, Drug Doin’ Music etc.), it was originally published in Chiller Than Most fanzine, issue 2. Pics by Ken Salerno, BJ Papas, Krissy Bedell.
This is definitely one of my favourite interviews I have ever done, it was really fun to do it. Gil and Zizzack took this picture specifically for the fanzine.
“With Jaybird, Token Entry are gonna break through from beneath the streets and give America a kick in the pants, whether its ready or not. Mark my words.” – Sold Out fanzine.
For me and for most of my friends Token Entry will always remain one of the best hardcore bands ever. Even though they are unfortunately less well-known than YOT, BOLD or GB, I mean Token Entry is a really underrated band. A very few kids speak about this band and nobody plays Token Entry cover songs. What is the reason for this? What is your opinion about this?
GIL: A lot of the qualities that make Token Entry a legendary hc band are probably the same reasons that contribute to them getting the shaft when it comes to being remembered as a world class band. TE occupy the weird space of NYHC that is just as good if not better than the rest but harder to nail down: They weren’t on Rev, they weren’t straight edge, they weren’t on the later reality tip of Breakdown/Raw Deal, they kind of occupy their own weird space where bands like Absolution, Rest In Pieces and NY Hoods fall. Being harder to classify maybe makes them come up in the conversation less. Bands like Mental who exposed NYHC to modern listeners turned new kids onto Underdog and Supertouch in a big way, same for Outburst, but the way I see it TE hasn’t gotten that spotlight. As far as why covers are so seldom it’s mainly because the songs are played with such intricacy that most don’t even attempt.
ZACK: It’s really very hard to place Token Entry into a certain category or throw them into a bucket with a certain group of bands since they were such incredible musicians. Bands at the forefront of late 80s NYHC such as YOT, BOLD, and GB were not fundamentally proficient at their instruments, which is what made them so endearing. Their music was for the common man, extremely easy to play, with very relatable lyrics, and they were remembered for their live performances rather than how well they played on record. I think what separated TE from this ilk is that they were actually good musicians that incorporated so many different influences into their songs – ripping solos, perfect guitar/vocal harmonization, straight up rock parts layered with melodies, etc. Essentially, their song writing is a cut above the aforementioned bands, and perhaps this is why we don’t see very many TE covers these days.
How was your first time meeting Token Entry? Do you have a fave release from them or do you like all their records equally?
GIL: My two introductions to the band were the Kid Dynamite cover of “Birthday” that has Ernie on it, and a copy of Jaybird that Sam BBB had picked up from Rock ‘n Roll Heaven in Orlando, FL. Having heard that song and then unlocking the key with access to the album itself complete with the visual of the cover art, it was definitely a hard hitting find. Windows, Pink Things, Entities – the groove of these songs spoke to me and was the puzzle piece to hearing bands like Mental mentioned before and drawing that line from their sound to the classic NYHC groove. My favorite release is Jaybird and has been since then so it is love at first sight for sure.
ZACK: Much like Gil, my first exposure to TE was through KD’s cover of “Birthday”, which piqued my interest enough to check out the band’s records. The first record I bought by TE was “Jaybird” because it had an eagle wearing sunglasses riding a skateboard across the album cover – basically the illest shit ever. Being knee-deep in the skateboarding game at the time, this really was just something that I had to have. With songs about skating such as the title track and the grooviness of the break parts in “Windows” I was completely sold. This record is my favorite release and was my soundtrack for walking to school every morning for about 3 months straight when I was in 10th grade.
Before he was in Raw Deal, Anthony Comunale was the original singer of Token Entry. What you can hear on the 7 inch are four tracks (Antidote, Psycho, Death Row, Forbidden Zone), all of which were later re-recorded, with Timmy Chunks on vocals for “From Beneath The Streets”. They have a three song demo session from 1986. It was recorded in San Francisco on Token Entry’s first American tour and they re-recorded these songs too. How do you compare the “Ready Or Not… Here We Come!!” 7 inch to the “From Beneath The Streets” LP?
GIL: I’ve always been partial to the FBTS versions of these 4 songs – mainly because they’re played faster and Timmy sings them in a more intense way. And on a more subconscious level, probably because I was introduced to the band through Timmy’s vocals so his voice to me is where the songs really come alive. On FBTS I think the songs are played in a more serious manner without losing any of the ambiance from the first takes. That’s not to take away from Ready or Not – “Antidote” on here is great, but the other 3 come to life on LP, they jump out at you more.
ZACK: I didn’t really get into the 7″ until quite some time after I heard their LPs. Before that, TE only existed in their first 2 full-length records for me, and that was the stuff that I had grown so accustomed to. Finding out that they had a release with a different singer that predated FBTS really blew my mind through the back of my skull. I love those versions of the songs, especially “Antidote” as Gil mentions, but I think their true power is realized through Timmy’s incredible vocal performance on the re-recordings.
Anthony Comunale or Timmy Chunks?
ZACK: Anthony Comunale’s best vocal performance lies not in TE, but rather Raw Deal. The essential TE vocalist is certainly Timmy Chunks. He has a complete sense of dominance in his vocal delivery over every song almost to the point where you could focus completely on him rather than the music and still be satisfied. On almost every song his vocals interplay with the rhythm of the guitar in perfect harmony. It always amazed me at how well you could make out every single word he sings, and I attribute that to how loud and powerful his vocals are over the music.
GIL: TE Comunale and his on-stage mosh moves where he’s actually dropping to the floor mid-skank is classic, but Timmy Chunks is Token Entry to me – his voice is just so powerful and he commands those songs perfectly, the personality that comes across in his delivery on the songs makes up a big part of how I think of the band. Timmy’s vocals have complete range that go through powerful spoken words to wildman screams. Comunale keeps it pretty level on the 7″ and like Zack says, he’d have his finest hour later on.
What are the best Token Entry songs, lyrically?
GIL: The best songs lyrically for me have to be: Entities (also one of my favorites musically), Psycho, Actions, and probably Token Entry the song. TE, like Rest In Pieces, sang about such a range of topics covering so many that are outside the standard fare of what hc bands sing about. I love songs like Think About It, Pink Things, Death Row cause they cover undiscussed topics or they just straight up tell a story. When you’re showing someone these albums, it’s hard not to be like yo this song is about Vietnam Vets! “Entities” was an early favorite and always has been because of the existential lyrics discussing people starting out the same in life, and questioning the paths people take in a way different than how a band like YOT would take on a topic like this. Token Entry the song is the band’s theme song, down to the most literal translation of their logo fitting over a mosh where the arrow and color green are explained “Like this tall skyscraper before my eyes positive construction has a limitless sky” – completely unique stuff. They didn’t have just one thing going for them, there’s a sense of humor and there’s a lot of seriousness too.
The songs on Jaybird are awesome both musically and lyrically. But do you like the sound on this record? (It was produced by Bad Brains’ guitarist Dr. Know.)
ZACK: I love the sound on Jaybird. Everything sounds so loud, full, and in your face yet you can still pinpoint each instrument very clearly in that they aren’t drowning each other out. I would never claim to understand any of the intricacies involved in recording, but I know one thing is certain – the quality of Jaybird is a major step up from FBTS in every single way.
GIL: Yeah I think the sound is their best definitely a step up from FBTS as far as capturing the power of the band. You hear it on Windows especially, there is a dark heaviness to the sound of the guitar which is off the wall cause the riff is fast and bouncy – there’s just a lot to this recording and it’s pretty dynamic in how much is going on. I don’t attempt to be an audio engineer, I leave that to Nasty Ned, but I think the important qualities of the band are captured on here.
Those hardcore veterans who saw them on stage, say they always put on a good, energetic live show. I have heard live tapes which sound equally awesome. What do you think about their live set at WNYU and their live songs from the Free For All compilation?
ZACK: I’m a very big fan of both recordings. The songs they play on the WNYU set are some of my favorite versions of those songs because they’re played even faster and sound a bit heavier as well. The FFA comp, although only 3 songs, might be some of the best quality live TE songs I’ve ever heard. You can definitely get a feel for the energy that was flowing through CBGB’s that day during the singalong in “The Edge” – almost feels as if I’m there when I listen to it.
GIL: These are my most consulted recordings, WNYU the Free For All tracks and WFMU rock. Hearing the FBTS played hard I always thought was the most important stuff to hear. A friend was over recently and I was bumping Free For All and he was surprised at how powerful it sounded. AJ who is also interviewed in this zine thinks I don’t like extended mosh parts, but he’s wrong – because I love the extended mosh in The Edge on Free For All. The last recording of the band I discovered was a WFMU set I got off Zack – it has one really loud lead guitar turned up all the way through it which makes it sound like Jimmy Hendrix is playing over all the songs – it’s awesome. Vinnie from Steinway Pianos could be 2014’s Neil Pollinger.
This will be hard to answer. Would you go to a reunion show if Token Entry only played from the “Weight of the World” album? Are you actually a fan of “Weight of the World”?
ZACK: No, I don’t like that record, and seeing those songs played live doesn’t really interest me at all. Sweet Pete actually shared a funny story with me and Gil about that record not too long ago. He bought the tape the day it came out in anticipation of it sounding like their older stuff, but after a few minutes of playing it in his car’s tape deck he deemed the record “monumentally bad” and actually threw it out of the window.
GIL: I generally think Weight of the World stinks and aside from the song where they mention Taco Bell doesn’t get much interest out of me.
Ernie’s artwork has always been one of my favourites from the “Ready Or Not… Here We Come!!” cover to the cover of “Jaybird” and let me just say, the “From Beneath The Streets” cover is one of the best things I have ever seen. What do you think about his artwork? His art seems to have had a huge impact on the Free Spirit t-shirt designs.
GIL: I’m a huge fan of the Ernie artwork. The smaller illustrations in the inserts and all the shirt designs, the lettering, they knew how to make a record worth looking at and a shirt design that I imagine would move quick. When Radio Silence came out the TE hand-painted jacket was one of the biggest gems in there. The Token Entry references in FS started early on when we suggested the FBTS style as a joke – then one day Ken rolled up to an early practice with a sketch he did of all of us in there, which then became a shirt design. We referenced them again when it came time to do a Cali tour shirt. Their attention to detail and the contribution of quality artwork from a drummer definitely had an influence on our band. Ken was drawing those cartoons before some of us knew what a talented artist he was, now he’s doing 4 foot oil paintings.
ZACK: Ernie was an artistic genius. His penchant for humanoid birds and caricature-esque cartoon drawings that are found on all the good TE releases will be forever remembered as some of the best art ever put forth by a member of the American hardcore scene. It’s even more special that art production in TE was an in-house operation – everything was done by an actual member of the band. This kept all of their art very true to the nature of the band since is was done so close to home. What I can appreciate most about Ernie’s art is that it’s not perfect, which in turn makes it very relatable to the viewer. Perfection lies within imperfection, in my eyes.
Black jaybird shirt. Yellow cartoon shirt with Ernie drawing. White logo shirt, Positive Force sleeveprint. Do you have a favorite TE t-shirt design?
ZACK: My favorite TE design is their 1988 tour shirt featuring the Jaybird skating over a gold badge with their American flag-infused logo on the front. This shirt belongs in a fucking museum.
GIL: My favorite is the arrow logo shirt with the sleeve print mainly because of its universal quality – you see it in so many old photos, there’s always one of those in the pit, and it’s lifted from real life in NYC at the time, like if you wore that shit in the city I imagine people wouldn’t even realize it’s a band they would think you got it on canal street.
Did you know that Timmy Chunks used to be an advertising face of Pepsi? He was a huge Pepsi fan with lots of Pepsi tattoos. Somehow the company got a wind of this, he appeared in a few magazines with his tattoos and one time they paid his flight from NYC to California where one of his Pepsi tattoos was done. Do you have any interesting or funny stories about TE that you wanna share with us?
ZACK: I think my Sweet Pete story above covers this one.
“I’d appreciate it if you didn’t jump on my head…”
The Buff Hall gig is a real gem. It was one of the earliest gatherings of the East Coast “tribes”: Minor Threat (DC), SS Decontrol (Boston), Agnostic Front (NYC), Flag of Democracy + Crib Death (Philly) were all on the bill. Crazy show with Ian MacKaye getting hit by a car, SS Decontrol’s van getting smashed – and, of course, security for the show being provided by the Ghetto Riders.
This Buff Hall article is originally published in Chiller Than Most fanzine, issue 5. Please click images to view full size.
(Anti-Anti fanzine, 1983)
(SS Decontrol at Buff Hall, Camden, NJ, 1982. Photo: Bruce Rhodes.)
I was browsing the “Time & Pressure” photobook (by Chris Bavaria) and that’s when I got the idea for this column. While I was admiring these awesome pictures I was thinking how great it would be to get more info about some of my favourite photographs. It is originally published in the 2nd issue of Chiller Than Most in 2014. (Click the image for larger size.)
Flowerhead issue, 2015. Pics by miguelrdelangel, Michael Andrade, Patrick Orozco, Angela Owens, Just A Minor Threat, Chris Suspect, Farrah Skeiky.
CTM – Hey John! You are going to do a European tour again, you stoked?
Crucial John – Hey man, we do go back to Europe in July and I’m looking forward to being there in the summer and seeing the sun. Last november when we were there, it was dark and overcast the whole time.
CTM – The main function of an opening track is to encourage us to listen to the album. The track Sonic Bloom is incredible. I just remember thinking, holy shit, this may be one of the greatest opening tracks I have ever heard. How important do you think is to choose the best opening track? What are the most memorable (punk/hardcore) opening tracks for you?
Crucial John – I actually was pushing for the song “Heart First Opened” to be the lead off track but everyone else in the band was really against it. I like that song and I liked how it just busted right in, there was no epic build up or typical opening track dramatics. But yeah, Sonic Bloom really is a great opener and with the backwards guitar, it introduces the album really well. It’s a song we have been playing live for about 3 or 4 years and were saving it for our first full length so it also had that weight of familiarity. I think sequencing for a record is really important, it just gets so stressful from inside a band, it’s hard to agree on anything. For me, speaking strictly hardcore, “Flame still burns” is probably my favorite opener. Knowing they broke up, and then got back together and the record they release next starts with that song, with those lyrics and “WE’RE BACK!!”, that combo is hard to beat. “Make a Change” and “Expectations” are also great openers. Black Flag always seemed to get it right with rise above, my war, and slip it in being among the best. Some others I love are Lifestyles from kings of punk, make me an offer from Desperate Measures, High Hopes, Signed off, and Death of a Salesman. And a new opening track that I can’t stop listening to is “Gravity” from “Non-stop feeling”.
CTM – Writing and recording the Electric Flower Circus/Sonic Bloom records, what was different about writing and recording the first Moonflower st 12″?
Crucial John – Well, the writing and recording for the first 12″ was all super new to me. I had recorded some stuff before here and there, but that was my first real recording experience. Structuring the vocals and writing lyrics came easily at that time from what I remember, and I think its because I was so amped on doing a band, I had a lot of ideas and was ready to get it all out. That first record was right off the heels of a huge change in my life and everything just sort of exploded out of me. I had spent the last 3 or 4 years in the air force waiting to be in a band full time and making music. My girlfriend of like 3 years at the time didn’t want to come with me and we ended up breaking up a few months before I moved. That crushed me and a lot of lines and themes on that first record are about that situation and things happening as a result. The song “Life Unknown” for example was about my first serious girlfriend in high school, we dated for about 3 years and during the last year she started hanging out with a guy who she would tell me about and say they were just friends. We eventually broke up and come to find out, that friend of hers she was hanging with previously had committed suicide a few months before we broke it off. 5 years later she eventually tells me that she was cheating on me with this guy while we were together and he was trying to get her to break it off with me and start dating him. She eventually decided to stay with me, and the guy killed himself a little while after. That shit blew my fucking mind, and I felt really guilty for awhile afterwards. I’m always curious what people think that song is about, no one has ever told me. But yeah anyways, I feel like this recent batch of records (Electric Flower Circus LP, Sonic Bloom and Electric Flower Cult EP’s) were written during one of the best times in my life. I was definitely stressed with writing that many lyrics but I feel like overall, I was extremely optimistic and enthusiastic and it shows on those records. I like my vocal performance the best on the LP and I think obviously I had just learned what works for me and hopefully it continues to improve. This next Give record is probably going to be a little different lyrically as it will reflect all these current transitions in my life. I’m not sure what’s gonna come out, but I can see it being a little more aggressive.
CTM – Lets talk about your lyrics. What were the first bands who’s lyrics you really connected with?
Crucial John – I don’t think I can really remember. I’ve always felt like I was late to the party with music, everyone else I talk to seems to have gotten interested in it at a younger age than me. I know the first piece of music I ever owned was a cassette tape of Storm Front by Billy Joel. I got it for xmas in ’89 when I was 7 years old and it was the first time I remember thinking it would be cool to own music. I was really into that song “We didn’t start the fire” just like probably everyone else on earth. I think the song “Downeaster Alexa” is to blame for my weird attraction to the ocean, beaches, and boats. After that I think I had a few other cassettes here and there but I didn’t really start buying a lot of cd’s until I was 13 years old. Lyrics were my favorite part of a song right away and I think getting into alternative rock, and punk, and classic rock, I liked the lyrics, but I didn’t really connect. For example, “Fight Fire with Fire” blew my away but the lyrics didn’t make their way into my heart and all of the Misfits lyrics were awesome and I loved them, but it didn’t go beyond an aesthetic appreciation. I didn’t really understand there were greater themes at work in certain songs, it all just seemed to service the music and that was it. Eventually with Minor Threat and especially Youth of Today, those were the first bands were it felt like the lyrics described situations directly in my life and it kind of helped twist me into appreciating lyrics of all types. It helped open up doors and I can pick little things here and little things there from lyrics from all types of genres that are meaningful to my life. It’s all a time and place thing for each person. Hearing something like Rudimentary Peni at a young age, I would have had no idea what was really happening lyrically, but could eventually come around. And now I can hear a line like “We need to talk” and set to the right backdrop, it can just melt your mind.
CTM – Which books and movies would say have left impact on your lyrics? Do you have any books or movies that have been especially inspiring you when writing lyrics?
Crucial John – I can’t think of any movies or books that were direct inspirations, but as a whole, all of that is a huge influence on me. I spend a lot of time getting wrapped up in fictional stories of some type, I love that shit just like anyone else. I can say I used to be obsessed with the book Less than Zero by Bret Easton Ellis. I love the story but the structure and overall vibe that is created with that book is what really attracted me. I have some fantastical infatuation with Los Angeles and I think it’s mostly due to that book. I was just last week reading that book Dark Alliance by Gary Webb again and remembering how much that thing took over my mind when I first read it. I have this on going dream to one day create a dramatic TV show centered around the crack cocaine explosion in LA and across the US in the 80’s. Somewhere I have written down story arcs and casting recommendations and all sorts of dumb shit. I don’t know what influence it’s had on my lyrics, but those are a few books that have really gripped my mind so maybe its seeped in in some way. I wouldn’t even know where to begin with movies, those things probably influence every aspect of my life in good and especially bad ways, there is no way of knowing really. I know Apocalypse Now is a very cliche movie to cite as an influence but that fucking thing is a flat out undeniable masterpiece that has stuck with my since I first saw it. I used to drive 8 hours to Texas almost every weekend to see my girlfriend at the time in like 2006 and I would listen to the audio from that movie on repeat the whole time. “Cleans Death” is my favorite piece from the soundtrack and I have dreamed of working it into a song ever since I first heard it. I have a 5 hour long bootleg work print of that movie that is real wild and an original program and ticket stub from when it was first released in theaters in ’79. For current American directors, Fincher, Mann, and Anderson are doing wonderful things. I like every fucking movie though.
CTM – I know that TFS will always be your favorite hardcore band, you were a member without actually playing an instrument. (Apart from that, you played bass for them at their first show.) What was the most important positive impact TFS had on your life? To me the message of your song “Learning To Die” is similar to Stephens’s “We All Die”.
Crucial John – That’s hard to say. I loved a lot of his lyrics and actually Aaron had a big hand in helping with themes and ideas and certain lines for TFS, but the influence of those lyrics would probably be more apparent to someone looking from the outside. I would say the biggest lasting impact they made on me is really just introducing me to everything. I traveled all over and met a lot of people and got involved with a lot of things because of that band, that’s something I always think about. They kind of helped hand the world to me. Again, maybe the lyrics had some type of influence on my lyrics that I’m not aware of, but I can’t really say. I can see the similarities with “We all die” and “Learning to die” but “We all die” to me was always a song reinforcing the idea that our time is limited and we should take advantage of the things we do get. I wrote learning to die about a lot of people who never seem to have a good thing to say about anything, and are either caught up in projecting an image or are actually miserable people. Seems like a slow decline to me.
CTM – Most of the bands say that, their earliest rehearsals are some of their favorite memories of the band’s life. Just the overwhelming feeling of making music for the first time, and hearing the first songs come together is the greatest thing. However, I can see that your initial enthusiasm for the band wasn’t replaced by disinterest. You are still full of new ideas. It seems to me you are still enjoying the creative process. What is your opinion about this?
Crucial John – That’s cool that it’s apparent because it has felt the same the whole time for me. I might be more excited now. I think I was always just real excited to execute this vision and to see what it could grow into, and as time goes in, it’s still just as exciting to keep adding on, expanding and see how far you can twist something. Ian just sent me a practice recording for a new song the other day and I felt the same as I did years ago when they would send practice recordings to me for songs that we recorded for the first 12″. I don’t know, isn’t that how everyone feels about being in a band or being involved in some type of creative project? And if not, why would anyone do it. I only want people in my life ready to die for the things they love.
CTM – How did you come up with the idea for the artwork for the Electric Flower Circus? The coverart of the Electric Flower Circus looks like similar to the Stone Roses iconic, paint-spattered NME magazine cover composition.
Crucial John – I don’t even remember what inspired the idea, maybe it was the Stone Roses, but I don’t know. Painting yourself is obviously not some big new idea, but I had the idea for awhile and always told myself when we do our first LP, that’s what I wanted to try and do. I just think it shows commitment on the bands part to a few different degrees and let’s people know we aren’t playing around (or that we are completely playing around).
CTM – I read that at the end of the photo shoot the Stone Roses needed to shower but the photographer had to break the news to them that there were no showers in the building so they put hand prints all down the stairwell of the building. How was your photo session? Share some funny stories about this session.
Crucial John – Getting everyone in the same place to execute that cover shot was a huge headache and was a factor in delaying the record for sure. We had one open day before a show in New Jersey and everything took longer than expected, the pictures weren’t coming out right and I was just getting really bummed because I didn’t think it was going to work out. We took the pictures in rock creek park in DC and on the walk back to our house, I tried one more thing and thats what ended up being the cover of the record. Everything ran longer than we thought and we had to be at a show in NJ and we didn’t know if we were gonna be able to make it. Our friend Eric booked the show and he stalled everything as long as he could and we drove straight there, had no time to clean up and by the time we got there, we had to load in, set up and play. It worked out perfectly because with something like that, it’s best to delay being at the show until the last possible second. So we showed up with our bodies still painted, set up right away, and played. It was pretty awesome. I don’t think a single picture exists from the show though. I have a red No Tolerance shirt thats still stained from the paint from that day.
CTM – Which British indie/britpop bands would you say have left an impact on Give?
Crucial John – I can’t speak for everyone in the band but for me it would have to be New Order, Ride, and the Happy Mondays. All for a variety of reasons, but those three really left an impression on me. New Order fucking especially is the most amazing band that lasted for years and never put out a bad album. These new audio clips from their upcoming album have me feeling good! If anyone tells you that Joy Division is better than New Order, they are either young or completely stupid. Happy Mondays are like the coolest band that has ever existed and impossible to replicate. Besides that I mean all the classics like The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who, etc all that shit is big for each of us in different ways. The band LOOP is a big favorite of mine and Neds Atomic Dustbin, Lowlife, Jesus and Mary Chain interviews, Suede, Oasis, The Smiths, and Adorable, the song “Vendetta”, fuck man. Too much good shit. There is probably someone in give that likes any band from the UK in some way. But yeah, obviously a lot of the aesthetics are a big influence. There is a great early Ride interview where they are asked how they feel about being compared to The Smiths for using flowers on the record covers and people bringing flowers to shows, and Mark just responds with “flowers are for everybody”. Love it.
CTM – You guys are very creative musically and artistically and with merch too. You worked with lots of different artists. Did you give them any instructions or did they come up with these concepts themselves?
Crucial John – Yeah, with everything we have done, it’s been me kind of directing what I want or providing a sketch or outline. I’ll try and convey the idea as close to completion as I can and then they just kind of make it real. Like with the record layouts, I’ll usually sit down with Evan and tell him how I want things to be placed and look, and he makes it all happen. We have been doing it together for this long, we kind of know each other well and he can already predict what I’m going to want. With other people, I usually always try and provide as many references and direction as I can. I just think it’s easier than saying “I want something cool, do whatever you want”. In my experience, that usually doesn’t work out well. Every so often someone will submit something out of the blue and it works beautifully. The artwork on the shirts for this European tour was given to me after we played a set a few months ago in Wilkes-Barre. A young kid just walked up and said “I drew this for your band” and handed me two pieces of paper with that artwork on it. I was blown away to say the least.
CTM – Breakthrough was a totally different thing in your life musically and everything else considered. How would you say that your time in Give has changed you as a person?
Crucial John – Well I’ve been in Give since around 2006 in some capacity and we became active at the very end of 2008 so that is a long time and I’ve probably changed in ways I don’t even realize. That question would probably be best suited for someone else.
Ian Marshall – John is pretty similar to his Pos-Top days, despite what some may think. The major changes are aesthetic. You can no longer see his erection while he performs, this may be on the rest of the members of Give. Are we not appealing enough? John has learned to revere Superchunk. He has always been a synth-pop loving quiet boy and he still talks about Convicted and Envy (not the Envy that black pants people like). John has become a better man and a better lyricist. He is aging like a fine, unshaven wine.
CTM – What are your memories playing a song with Jason Farrell? How did that collaboration happen anyway?
Crucial John – We played our record release show in DC with Red Hare and Swiz and I had told Jason, who lives in Los Angeles, that we were coming to California soon. He offered up his gear if we needed it and we ended up using a cab and head of his the whole tour and I asked if he wanted to play guitar for us for a show. It was short notice but he thought it was a cool idea and showed up to our second LA show downtown at 7th street warehouse and said he was good to go on three songs, “Voodoo Leather”, “I am love”, and “Sonic Bloom”. We played those songs last and he jumped up and did them. The whole set was great and the vibe of that show was so cool. The microphone chord snapped in half during one of the last few songs and it was the only one there so we had to go without vocals the last two songs. I remember thinking “Is Jason gonna sit back and just play and chill out or is he going to do his usual?” He ended up totally doing his thing, cutting back, running here and there, stutter stops, it was really cool. The best memory was after the set, Jeremy Stith, singer of Fury was telling me how stoked he was about the Farrell appearance and saying he has to get a pic with him before the night closes out. I tell Jason “Hey man, my friend Jeremy is trying to get a pic with you before you leave” and he responds with “Oh, you mean the kid that stolen my fucking bands name”.
CTM – I really love your Voodoo Leather tape. To me, this is the band’s most experimental release and is significantly different from your other stuff. I definitely think this release has the most psychedelic vibe in the history of the band. The Voodoo Leather tape is “heavy”, the Electric Flower Circus LP and the Sonic Bloom EP are more “rockish”. What is your opinion?
Crucial John – I agree that it is our most experimental release and I remember when the time came to do that tape, Ian had those songs for awhile and “Daisy Pains” was a song we wern’t sure how to finish and the snake pair we had jammed on for awhile and didn’t know where to put them. I was talking with Heartworm about the release and we wanted it to have exclusive songs and those were some of the songs we had been working at the time that didn’t have a home yet, so we decided to just put it all on that tape. There was no big plan for the songs that ended up on that tape, it was just all of the weirder stuff we had at the time. Voodoo Leather I think is more straight forward and was a song that Ben had written right around that time and I was real excited about it. We recorded the music for that tape here in Maryland at Angela Instuments (the place Gene and I work, and also where we practice) and I went up to Boston to do the vocals. Our friend Chris recorded it all for us. I can appreciate both approaches to musical output, for example some bands are very strict and specific in executing a vision and about what they release and other bands let it all hang out and showcase everything. Like Sonic Youth for example, who couldn’t seem to stop releasing music and always had side projects and weird limited releases. I feel like that tape is more in the latter category for us. Ian can probe explain more about the songs than I can…
Ian Marshall – You are probably onto something because those songs ended up on the tape because they were sort of outliers. Snakey Charmer predates Give. I wrote it with Gene for a band him and I never did and when I joined Give we learned it. Anytime we recorded something there was not much consensus on using the song so it just kinda hung around. Eventually I wrote a sequel, Snakey Rider, and the pipe dream was to have them flow into one another on a recording but time did not allow for that. Daisy Pains was written as an ending to a song that we recorded last year for an EP on Lockin Out. There was a complaint that the ending the song had was not cohesive enough with the rest of the song and for some reason Gene and I thought if we write this other ending that is even longer and has even less to do with the song than it would work out fine. The song that ended up on the Lockin Out EP remained as is and the wacky ending eventually got used as Daisy Pains.
CTM – What are your most memorable moments from your previous European tours?
Crucial John – I’m not good with specific moments, if you see us on tour and are curious about stories, ask our friend 85 or Ben. They have much better memories and can probably give you a rundown on a ton of interesting and funny experiences. I will say that touring with No Tolerance was great because they are one of my current favs and it’s always cool to see a band you love play every night. You get to see mistakes, good sets, bad sets, etc and thats always cool.
Ben Schultz – Playing with lots of cool bands and meeting nice people from all over Europe are probably the best and most memorable parts of any past European tours. Some more personal memories include the stench of the bathroom at cafe blitz in Oslo, meeting Denmark’s most famous rapper (Jonny Hefty), being harassed by Austrian police for no real reason, and, of course, 85 throwing a stranger’s dirty underwear on Dan’s head so that he’d stop snoring in Flensburg (sorry Dan but I was too afraid to tell you in person).
CTM – I heard that you met the son of the current Prime Minister of Hungary on your last European tour! Haha!
Crucial John – Ha, that was a fun time. I was hanging with Laszlo after the show and we were walking all around the city and I remember he ran into a friend and we stopped to chat for a sec and then went our separate ways. Afterwards he explained that it was a classmate of his and he was actually the son of the Prime Minister. Pretty cool, Laszlo was a great host and guide and I had a blast on that trip to Budapest, really like that city.
CTM – You are a TMNT fan, tell me something about your adoration of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Who is the Krang in the Give crew?
Crucial John – Ha, no idea who the Krang is in the crew, not sure I even know anyone who would be similar to Krang. I’ll say my friend Ahron for the sake of an answer because he is the biggest TMNT fan I know besides myself and he is a small insane person and I love him. For Give, Ben is Donatello, Ian is Ralphael, Doug is Michaelangelo, Dan is Leonardo, Austin is Casey Jones, Ashley is April O’Neil, and Gene is the shredder. Maybe Ahron is actually the rat king because he is the only person I’ve known that has picked up a dead rat with his teeth. For most interesting and favorite characters I’ve always loved Baxter Stockman, was real into the way his action figure looked when I was young and I’ve always thought the mousers were really well developed. The cartoon iteration of Baxter was the version they ran with in all of the video games and he looks so cool, especially at the end of “Big Apple 3am” in Turtles in Time. The cartoon and playmates toy line were my introduction as a kid and I didn’t read the original comics until way later, and it’s really cool to see what and how things were translated The Triceratons were a very cool part of the comics and I don’t think they got their due in the cartoon. Leatherhead was an awesome toy and even more vicious in the comic. April O’Neil was a lot more fleshed out in the comic and I loved all the drama surrounding her character. A lot of the characters created specifically for the toy line were at the very least, interesting looking. I really love them all. The TMNT rouges gallery might be my all time favorite, the only other two that even come close are Batman (Joker, Scarecrow, Penguin, Mr. Freeze, Firefly, etc) and Spider-man (The Lizard, Doctor Octopus, Sandman,Venom, Kraven, Green Goblin, etc). TMNT is very near and dear to my heart and is closely associated with my childhood, it just hit at the right time. The cartoon is awesome, but I haven’t see every episode, the toy line is incredible especially the first three series releases, and the comic is among my favorite ever. The “return to new york” and “City at war” story arcs are classic and I would recommend them to anyone that enjoys comic books. The first TMNT film is a masterpiece and I like all the others to varying degrees.
CTM – I know that the music is completely done for the Lockin Out release. What are your future plans after the LOC EP is released? Are you working on new songs?
Crucial John – That Lockin Out EP is taking longer than expected but I’m working on the layout now and it should be out later this year hopefully. Future plans for us right now is to just release more music and play more shows. The format will most likely be a 12″ but nothing is for certain. Doug came down to hang and practice with us a week or so before the European tour and we practiced and demo’d around 8-10 new songs and I’m sure more will creep in before we actually record. Ben, Ian, and Doug always have a ton of riffs floating around. We are always working on new songs, I wish I could keep up with lyrics.
CTM – Sometimes you look like Axl Rose in your vintage Nirvana baseball hat. In the music video for the Guns N’ Roses song “Don’t Cry“, a Nirvana baseball hat is visible to the side of Axl’s left leg when he is lying down in the psychiatrist’s office. Axel is also seen wearing the hat in an interview that was filmed while making the video. Despite there are various live videos where Axl shows hatred towards Nirvana to the crowd. Why did Axl Rose hate Kurt Cobain so much?
Crucial John – Well, that whole feud is well documented and basically stemmed from Kurt slamming Gun’N’Roses in interviews and just talking shit in general. I also think Nirvana turned down an opening slot on some tour with them or something. So after all that Axl started firing back and there is that famous incident at the VMA’s where Axl threatened to beat Kurt’s ass and told courtney to shut up after they sarcastically asked him to be the godfather of their child. Who knows, Nirvana is one of my favorite bands ever but both of them rock hard and are insane so who cares. I bought the Nirvana hat, which is a promo item for the release of Nevermind from Joint Custody about two years ago, Ritter texted me a picture and said a guy had come in with a nirvana hat and asked me how much I would pay for it. I replied saying “any amount” and he ended up getting it from the guy for $25. I’ve worn it every day since except for a brief period where I lost it earlier this year. The day after our record release in December, Swiz played a show at the Black Cat in DC and I lost it in the mayhem during the first song. It was packed and I searched between every song and at the end of the night but was never able to find it. I was super bummed and considered it lost but a month later we were on tour in Cali and I wake up to a text from Ritter that just showed our friend Ambrose wearing the Nirvana hat. Supposedly Ambrose had been at a flea market type event held at the Black cat that day and a guy walked in wearing the hat. Ambrose approached the guy and the dude said “Oh yeah, I found this hat on the ground at the Swiz show that was here recently.” Ambrose sweet talked him and got it back for me. Friends are cool, shop at Joint Custody.
CTM – Is there a connection between the colors of the singles and the lyrics/titles on the records? (Heaven is blue, love is red etc…)
Crucial John – There isn’t and now thinking about it, I don’t even remember the reason we used purple and blue first. I did all of those covers with Evan and we may have played with each record to see which color worked the best with the photo, but that probably isn’t even true. It was completely random. Obviously we wanted to use all primary and secondary colors, so that’s why the “I am Live” 7″ on Photo booth ended up yellow.
This interview is originally published in Chiller Than Most fanzine, issue 6 (2018).
“YO CTM! Thanks for the interview when we had our first demo out!
We have a new recording coming soon! We have had a lot of fun recording this. We’ve been trying to just do what we felt like. We have been inspired by the great bands like Sheer Terror, Agnostic front, early Madball just to name a few (maybe the listeners can name more bands haha) but the recording will soon drop on bandcamp and hopefully a physical copy by the summer!” March 01, 2020
CTM – What’s up Rich. Give us a little intro to who Hypocrite is please.
Rich Perusi – Hypocrite is a hardcore band based in Copenhagen made up of myself playing guitar, Matti on drums, Jonas on vocals and Matt aka Parsons on Bass. We’ve been playing together for about a year, after Matti, Jonas and I spent about a year before that trying to put a band together. It finally rounded itself out when we got Matt involved. Him and I had a lot of mutual friends from the US but had never met before – but its been a great fit since.
CTM – How was the record release gig with Burn?
Rich Perusi – The release show was awesome. We were all SUPER excited to get to play with Burn – I am always amazed at how powerful and energetic they are every time I’ve seen them play. We made some record release sleeves for our 7″ that I’m still on the fence if they were cool or corny – but I guess that’s my fault since I do most of the design in the band. Shout out to the Murda Twinz Jeppe & Andreas for hooking us up with the show! They do so much for hardcore in Copenhagen.
CTM – Take us back to when and where Hypocrite started? I know that Hypocrite is comprised of two Danes and two Americans. Sounds like there might be a good story there, how did you find each other? When you first started this band what were your intentions?
Rich Perusi – Honestly I think we found each other through shows. It’s kind of the age old story of hardcore. You see the same faces at shows again and again and eventually you start talking. I think I was lucky moving to a new country and having something like hardcore and skateboarding that allowed me to easily meet people who shared similar interests. After about a year of living here I met Matti and Jonas – and it clicked. Initially when I moved here I didn’t really have any intentions of doing another band – but with Jonas and Matti I found people who were into all the same things I was and had similar ideas about the sound they wanted in a band. We had a few start stops over the years, with different people coming in and out. But like I said, after Matt moved over here to go to school and joined we were able to get really focused and make it work really well.
CTM – Most of the bands say that, their earliest rehearsals are some of their fave memories of the band’s life. Just the overwhelming feeling of making music for the first time, and hearing the first songs come together is the greatest thing. What was the writing and recording process like? What’s the best part of Hypocrite’s composing process?
Rich Perusi – Once we got Matt involved it really came together (I don’t want to blow too much smoke up his ass) but before that it sort of felt like we weren’t making any kind of progress, I had written some songs, but with just drums, guitar, and vocals it needed some rounding out with the bass. Recording was ok – we did it with this guy called Jesper at this place Mayhem here in Copenhagen. It’s a noise venue / space – connected closely to the Posh Isolation scene for a while. Another band Ond Tro from Copenhagen had recorded there – and I liked the sound so I contacted Jesper. I didn’t want it to sound polished, and I’m really happy with the sound on the recording. It was funny because he wanted like 500 danish crowns, a pizza and a 6 pack of beer to record us. But in the end he didn’t want the pizza or the beer – just the money.
CTM – What bands influenced you apart from obvious connections to Negative Approach and Circle Jerks?
CTM – Are you satisfied with how the record came out? How do you think it’s been received?
Rich Perusi – Yes I’m really happy with how it turned out – I think the reception has been positive. We are still so new, and the scene here is different than other places I’ve lived, but it has been really warm – and we are steadily getting asked to play shows so that’s a good sign.
CTM – Most of your lyrics are really direct, straightforward and angry. I suppose often the best way, or the easiest way is just that simplicity, and just speaking to the most sincere and easiest way of saying it. What do you think about this?
Jonas – I think that hardcore songs in general should be straight forward songs, I like songs with a lot of messages that are hidden but for me it seems the best way to get my ideas out, is to be in some way more direct.
CTM – “Destroy” is a song that really sticks out. It feels like a take on reclaiming your own humanity and fighting against a homogenized way of thinking. What was the inspiration behind that song?
Jonas – The song is about my thoughts on danish society, we are supposed to be the happiest country in the world, but really it’s all fake, who cares about who is the happiest country when a lot of the people are tired of it. I don’t like the politicians in this country, we have some good stuff, like high taxes that I’m proud of.. but I’m not proud of corporations not paying taxes, and I’m not happy with the racism that is growing in the country, and that has always been there. When I sing, “we’re are never accepted, by the color of our skin, and by the way we dress…” that is because of how it was when I was younger, I was frustrated with everyone asking me where I was from (My mom is danish and my dad is from Iran but I don’t speak farsi or Arabic since he’s an arabic minority) I would say to everyone I was Danish and people would say… “but where are you really from?” That shit makes me angry – and it’s not only danes who would say it – people of different cultural backgrounds would ask the same question, so why can’t one be accepted for who they are as a person? I’m not happy with the hyporcracy that there is in this country, most people don’t know that there are 3 phases in an asylum seeker, and in the first phase it says you can’t work.. still people the politicians are feeding this lie that asylum seekers don’t wan’t to work.. that is what makes me angry and what the song is about.
Hypocrite Demo recording 2020.
CTM – How has hardcore affected your life choices?
Rich Perusi – Well I found straight edge through hardcore, and I made a lot of choices because of straight edge in my life. I found the Bad Brains and trying to keep the PMA through hardcore, and that has affected how I live my life even beyond straight edge. It made me realise the power of a community and an attitude about doing things yourself.
CTM – Let’s talk about “What’s Wrong With Me”. What are you trying to present with the song?
Jonas – Most of the lyrics are my thoughts on my life and specifically about how I try to battle the thoughts inside my own head, in the first verse im saying “…I keep telling myself to man the fuck up” is the stereotypical macho man image, that I think every boy in the world, at one point has been told… man up! Fuck that shit! But still that thing is stuck in my head, in everything that I do… I try to battle it but it’s hard when that thing has been implemented in your head. And when I say “frustration I keep in the back of my mind” that’s another thing I do, I don’t talk about my frustrations, I’m really bad at it… and some times it all boils over. It’s not a macho thing, I am actually trying to deal with this stuff. I wish I could tell people around me when I’m having a bad time, more often than I do, but it’s a work in progress like life itself.
CTM – I saw that Hypocrite covered “Backfire” by Side By Side, which is an interesting choice to me. The message of this song is really similar to your song called “Waste of Time.”…
Jonas – Simple answer Backfire is just a good song – but to be honest I think that the similarities is that’s it’s about something you see in other people that you don’t want to be. My message is that I’ve seen a lot of people in my life acting like they’re something that they’re not. I never want to be like them, they’re wasting their time trying to satisfy their own egos.
CTM – Earlier today I watched Agnostic Front’s brilliant performance on The Uncle Floyd Show! If you could only appear on one late-night television show, which would it be and why?
Rich Perusi – Saturday Night Live. #1 Because of FEAR #2 Because of Beastie Boys that shit was so inspirational to me (the Beastie Boys performance).
CTM – What was your most listened to hardcore demo in high school?
Rich Perusi – I went to high school in Connecticut – there was a band from there called Sum of All Fears that I loved – I wore their demo out tape out.
CTM – What is the best thing about K-town?
Rich Perusi – Well every year they do the fest – it’s amazing to see how many people come together for hardcore and punk on a DIY level. It’s literally a 4 day party with like 2,000 smiling people – all different but sharing a love for DIY hardcore and punk. The city itself is beautiful, and it’s really easy to live here.
CTM – Thanks for the interview! Anything else you want to say?
Rich Perusi – Thank you for the support and doing the interview! I’m psyched to be part of Chiller than Most!
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